Auction Power Guide

Horse section: What are some humane ways to control horse overpopulation in America without slaughter?
This is a follow up to a question that was asked yesterday or the day before about peoples’ views on horse slaughter, which is an issue that is (and should be) of concern to ALL horse people. I am interested in seeing how many different, humane alternatives to slaughter that people can come up with. To get the conversation started, I will list a few ideas of my own, but please feel free to add your own thoughts. The only thing I ask is that everyone please remember that this is a public forum that’s viewed by young people and children as well as adults, and to keep your language civil and clean. Thanks in advance. Now, for my list of ideas:

1. Get legislation passed at both the federal and state levels that requires licensing for ANYONE who wants to breed a horse for any reason. Ideally, anybody and everybody who wants to be a breeder should be able to demonstrate that he or she has the knowledge, experience, and financial backing to be able raise a foal or foals from birth to maturity. Requiring licensing prior to the granting of breeding rights will help to cut down on the numbers of interlopers and backyard breeders, and thus help to reduce the population of unwanted, unrideable, unsaleable horses.

2. Go after the leaderships of major breed registries such as the AQHA and the Jockey Club (among others) and start imposing mandatory LIMITS on how many foals may be accepted for registration in any given year. Along with this, develop and implement mandatory foal,mare, and stallion inspections so as to ensure that only the very best of the best horses ever get bred. In the case of Thoroughbreds, RAISE THE MINIMUM RACING AGE to 4 and 5, so that horses have time to grow up and mature before they are asked to do hard work. This simple step alone will save tens if not hundreds of thousands of equine LIVES. Horses that live longer and are competitive at older ages can safely have their breeding careers delayed as well, which in turn means fewer demands on precious resources.

3. Develop and mandate the use of stallion testing and inspection programs such as those found in Europe. Stallion testing is something that has been in place for decades, if not a century or more in that part of the world, and it has had an enormous impact on the quality of the horses that are being bred and sold there. Some of the most popular European breeds have had their quality improved enormously through the use of stallion testing and mandatory culling and gelding programs, and we need to take a lesson from these countries and do the same thing here in America.

4. Get legislation passed to increase funding for medical research, so that effective methods of controlling WILD horse and burro populations can be developed. These can include implantable contraceptives, contraceptives that can be added to something like a salt lick, and so forth. We also need better management practices for those wild herds that currently exist, along with better enforcement of existing laws to prevent such animals from winding up in the kill pens after they supposedly have been adopted.

5. Also in the case of Thoroughbreds, stud fees need to be brought down out of the stratosphere, and the field made more level for everyone. It’s INSANE that stud fees for top sires like AP Indy and Storm Cat are a quarter or half a million dollars a pop. No normal individual can ever afford such a luxury, and it serves to drive a lot of small time breeders out of the game. Racing needs to move beyond its unholy pursuit of the almighty dollar, and return to its original roots as a gentlemen’s and ladies’ game. The emphasis in TB breeding needs to be on SOUNDNESS and overall HEALTH, not just simply on speed and looks the way it is right now. We need mandatory culling and gelding programs for colts, too, especially for those colts which are cryptorchids or which have other hereditary problems. Keeping these animals from reproducing (regardless of how successful they are on the track) will also help to cut down on the incidence of defects like cryptorchism getting passed from one generation to the next, which in turn will help to strengthen the breed and prevent early breakdowns and tragedies.

These are just a few of MY ideas on this issue. Now I want to hear everyone else’s.
GB, requiring licensing is one helluva lot better than just allowing anyone John or Jane Doe who wants to make a quick buck to breed his or her junk mare to an equally junk stud that his best drinking buddy owns. That’s how trash horses get born, you know. Making people get licenses and prove that they know what they’re doing will put a stop to a lot of that.

You can ship them to Syria Afganistan Pakistan Iran to transport weapons Azerbaijan Kazakistan mongolia China to transport goods UK for horse racing.
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1. No no no NO! Keep the fricken’ government out of things. Just because you can demonstrate that you have the "financial means," "knowledge" (good luck defining that!) and "experience" (once again, good luck defining that) does NOT mean you are competent to breed horses. PERIOD.

2. LOL, yeah right! Limit the number of foals able to be registered and watch registration fees skyrocket and watch the rat race for everyone to have foals born January 1st.

3. Where or where are we going to get the funds for this? And who are YOU to tell me that my stallion isn’t "good" enough? And there you go again, bringing in MORE government! (And no, I don’t own any studs, just hypothetical speaking.)

4. I thought you were actually onto something here. Then I read further… BUT… it gave me an idea I didn’t have before. Instead of the animals going to waste in a slaughter house, use them for animal testing. Yeah, it sounds horrible, but as a person of science I know that animal testing is SO important and it would give them a dignified death knowing they were used for something good.

5. You contradict yourself here with your first idea. "Small time breeders" don’t have the financial means of the big shots, so why would they get a license over the big time breeders? Plus, good luck turning anything back into what is used to, it’s getting to be all about money for everything.

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I think my point went right over your head.
I get the THEORY behind licenses but how would you ever implement that? How do you determine who is and who is not fit to own/breed a horse? What about an Amish family who breeds their own "junk" horses? Or any religion that doesn’t allow use of modern technology? Or a rancher who doesn’t give to sh*ts about how "well" the horse is bred versus a horse with a good temperament and good work ethic? Who pays for this licensing? What happens if you breed out of license? This is a very slippery slope… it sounds like a select few controlling the breeding industry.
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At the end of The Price is Right instead of Bob Barker saying, "Have your pet spayed or neutered" he should say "Have your pet spayed or neutered and make sure to geld your stallions!!". Price is Right viewers are responsible for at least 49% of horse breeding in America.
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I think we should educate horse owners and horse lovers to pressure the administrations of their favorits breed assiciations to adopt some of these policies voluntarily (i.e., encourage stallion testing programs and discourage racing before age 4.) I believe conscientious consumers can wield considerable influence through the power of their pocket books. However, I will always oppose any MANDATORY federal or state laws requiring owners to be licensed before they can breed their own horses. There are already too many laws in this country dictating what people can and cannot do.
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There is gelding – removal of testicles
Separation – putting mares away from Stallions when in heat
Trickery – where a man goes under two horses about to mate and the man put a cup-like device over the male horse part and catches the semen. Sometimes they freeze it and sell it.
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Well, in response to your bullet #1, I would have to say I disagree. I do believe that people should have the knowledge and resources available to breed, but a law like this would be too hard to enforce, and to define. How do you define "knowledge"? Is everyone who wants to breed their mare going to have to take a written exam? Written exams are not a very good measure of horse sense. What defines "experience"? My family bred an appaloosa mare when I was in high school. We had no experience breeding ourselves, but we did have a trainer to guide us through the process, and we were successful in raising a nice filly. Would first time breeders ever be able to get the license because they have never bred before and don’t have "experience"? These regulations would only cause headaches for horse owners and cost the government more money. Where is the money going to come from to pay those law enforcers and exam proctors, and financial advisors? This is not something the government should be involved in!

I do agree with you that it should be the responsibility of larger breed registries to adopt some of the same practices as the warmblood registries. Inspections of stallions AND mares would be ideal. Limiting the number of foals able to be registered from a single stallion in one year would lower the number of registrations and force stallion owners to be more choosy about the mares they allow their stallion to breed with. However, organizations like the AQHA are in it for the money. They support slaughter as an out for overbreeding and they encourage further breeding because each horse registered is more money to them! There is nothing you can do to legislate a change in the industry of the Jockey Club or the AQHA and make their goals for quality override their greed for more money. What’s most important is education.

Spread the word about these issues. Don’t force people to change their ways by requiring licences to breed, or forcing registries to do the right thing. You’ll only encounter resistance! You have to educate those around you. Tell everyone you know about these issues and discourage breeding without a specific plan for the foal’s future and consideration about the quality of the parents. Don’t support the AQHA’s push to make slaughter an easy way out for large-scale commercial QH breeders, and don’t buy horses from those breeders.
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The best way to eliminate over population is to eliminate slaughter.

Allowing horses to be slaughtered allows for a secondary horse market. When a breeder or owner has a horse they can’t sell often due to the poor quality of the animal they have an automatic source of income for this horse by selling for slaughter. I have heard several so called breeders confessing to this method.

By taking away this promised source of income back yard breeders are then forced to slow down or stop their breeding program. In the last year or so i have personal watched many folks have to start selling their breeding mares, stallions and shut down their breeding program. This proccess will also help clean-up the horse market for those who are trying to sell quality horses.

This is not a proccess that happens immideditly and needs time to take its course. I feel that the only legislation that should be passed in this topic is to prevent the funding of inspectors like it was prior to november 2012.
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The only reason I am posting an answer here is to add an extra thumbs up to "Go Big". I highly agree with the answer they gave. I couldn’t say it better myself. I also agree with eventingdiva16 and Sabrina.

~The End.

Just to add:

I understand your beliefs and I do applaud you for such devotion, opinions, and work to fix such an issue; but, find ways to avoid the government as I highly doubt they’d even give a nickel. I do agree with the wild horse aspect, I live 100 miles from a wild horse ("preserve" you could call it), however, the health is not as big of an issue as the going to the kill pen.
Though, here in America, horse slaughter was banned; horses are still loaded up and taken to Canada and Mexico where its legal. That being said, how do expect the government to stop horses being slaughtered when its perfectly legal in those countries? Thats like me going onto your property because your neighbor hated you running your lawnmower at 6 o’clock in the morning and hired me to go tell you to move your schedule to 7 o’clock on *your* property about *your* lawnmower. Think about that. How is it right for your neighbor to call me up and have me tell you what to do on your property where you have a right to do it? And what am I going to do about what you have a right to do? Would it be kind of you to stop running your lawnmower at 6 o’clock? – Yes. Would it be nice if the government gave a s— and regulated what goes across the borders? – Yes. Is any of the going to change? – No.
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in theory your ideas are great, although i don’t think they would work in practice. We need to leave the government out of private business, however asking for breed associations to change would be a good start.

i really like your idea on breed testing and inspections, this will still result in lesser quality horses being produced, but at least you wouldn’t be able to stamp a registration on any animal with a particular bloodline. it could also help to cut down on the genetic issues in certain breeds as well.

with racing requirements, this would need to start with a change in public awareness and perception. i personally would like to see changes in starting under saddle ages in all types of futurities and showing, but due to public demand it wont happen, and unfortunately the horse suffers along with riders and owners that bring their horses along more responsibly.

in short the change needs to come within the horse community, not the government. this wont be any sort of easy though, and will require big changes from the major breed associations which in turn would upset their income and their following. If possible though, in the end you are producing better horses that you could sell for far more than what is being asked currently. the people who will hurt the most are those that are providing the breed associations with the most money though, so i see any change highly unlikely in the near future.

As far as ways to reduce the need for horses to be taken to slaughter- a stronger economy will help this. If people had the money to care for the horses they had, fewer would be sent to slaughter. With the hay shortage going on, slaughter will be more humane than starvation for many of these horses (and as a horse lover this absolutely breaks my heart). There are always ideas about how one would need a license to buy or sell, but then you are putting too much government where it has no business being and when you give the government an inch they will take a mile.

Making organizations like pony club more accessible to children who are interested in horses (with any income background) and getting their parents involved would help in preparing families for that investment and hopefully prevent parents from buying horses for their kids with no idea of what they are getting into. Perhaps adding courses like equine related finances to barn programs in order to educate students on the cost of owning a horse (i know this would probably bore kids to death if done incorrectly but still an idea).

i think it comes down to a sense of personal responsibility; as a horse owner it is my job to make sure my horse has the proper care she needs. if i cannot provide that care it is then my job to find her a suitable home, not just unload her on the first person who comes along with cash and a horse trailer. there are just too many people who don’t need to be owning horses because they lack any sense of personal responsibility. there is no way to change this because it exists in all facets of life- look at how many people are having kids that can’t afford them, just because you are able to reproduce doesn’t mean you should, same goes for horse ownership, or any animal ownership for that matter. Very interesting question though, I really can’t come up with any good solution that doesn’t require a ton of government oversight (which would turn into a problem all on its own) or a change in each individual.
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You have to hit the ones who profit from overbreeding in their pocketbooks, and those members of the equine industry who contribute to the problem have to contribute to the solution by taking on more financial responsibility for cleaning up the messes they make.

Assigning breeding fees through the breed registries and imposing surcharges on stall fees at tracks would allow the industries producing the majority of horses winding up at the slaughterhouses to fund programs offering free or low cost gelding clinics and humane euthanasia and rendering services. The breed registries need to educate their members and discourage irresponsible breeding practices through every means possible.
Instead of government spending of millions of tax dollars to fund slaughterhouse inspections and subsidizing foreign industry (with virtually no tax revenue to the US), those funds should divert to subsidize construction and operation of more biodegraders and large carcass composting facilities to allow for institution of large scale veterinary humane euthanasia and rendering. These methods render environmentaly safe yields for beneficial recycling.

We know that combined with industry overbreeding to create the overpopulations, the economic downturns and extremes of climate such as droughts that raise feed prices are what lead to abandonments and equine starvation. In order to ease these times, Temple Grandin has advocated for the establishment of hay banks and allowing hay to be harvested on land that the government pays crop farmers to leave unplanted.

As it is, the availability of slaughter has always subsidized overbreeding. When the US plants closed, the Mexican and Canadian plants just processed more US horses, and breeders kept on breeding.
AQHA and Jockey Club beeders along with other industry fat cats are notorious for contributing the majority of horses sent to slaughter, and their irresponsible overbreeding practices as well as exploitive businesses such as the PMU industry are all subsidized by the slaughter industry while it operates as a waste dump for their throw aways.

Let’s hope the foreign market for our contaminated US horse meat goes dry when the European Union database and EID birth to slaughter monitoring requirement goes into effect in 2013. If the Asian countries follow suit, there will be no market for US horse meat, and that might be what it takes to put the worst of the irresponsible breeders out of business and what will force us to find viable solutions to issues of equine overpopulation once and for all.
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59 years with horses

I don’t know, really…

If we limited the number of stallions a person was able to own there’d be less breeding obviously..

Or if breeders were willing to export horses, there’d be less people breeding in their country just because they couldn’t obtain a foal from our country.

Limit the amount of breeding a facility could have in a year?
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You need to hit the pocket books of the people who profit from this kind of inhumanity. There is a drug called "Premarin" research it. Its been around since the early 1940’s. Its made by Wyeth Pharmaceuticals. Its relieves symptoms for women going thru menopause. Thats a BIG market. This drug is collected from the urine of impregnated mares only. There is a synthetic generic option made by Duramed Pharmaceuticals, so there are other options for hormone therapy…..this drug, "Premarin" is in decreased use because it is accused of increasing a risk of stroke, heart attack, cancer & so on as do most hormone therapy drugs. So here is one little story of the drug called "Premarin" made be Wyeth Pharm. that increased a huge population foals in this country that went to slaughter helping other nations meat markets, ya see how one good turn deserves another.
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X pharmaceutical worker

1. no one wants the government in that. they have better/more important things to do anyways.

2. that’s not going to happen. anyways, the people that are backyard breeders don’t bother to register usually, or their foals are not in fact purebred or out of the stallion they say..

3. generally if the horse is terrible people will not breed to it. this is the most reasonable plan out of your options.

4. people would much rather spend their money on medical research for curing human diseases.

5. breeding for racing has ALWAYS been about speed. yes, we all agree that if a horse has the possibility to pass on a disease or problem that they should not be bred..
what do you mean:
"It’s INSANE that stud fees for top sires like AP Indy and Storm Cat are a quarter or half a million dollars a pop. No normal individual can ever afford such a luxury, and it serves to drive a lot of small time breeders out of the game."
– isn’t that the whole point of your argument? to take out small breeders? to make it harder/more costly to breed..?

Good luck!
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1 and 2…so you want the government and crooked registries in charge of who breeds? NOPE!!!

3 Again who watches the watchers? NOPE

4. Ridiculously expensive and exactly the OPPOSITE of a wild herd. NOPE!

5. So you want the field leveled for this breed, but want it decidedly unlevel for other breeds? NOPE

You seem to have a lot of naive ideas that may look good on paper but in reality will spell disaster for most breeds.

Instead of regulation, people need to be taught how to judge horses much better than they currently do. Education in that area alone will do far more to reduce unwanted breeding than almost anything else, but in the end, from strictly a biological perspective, we need to have horse slaughter. There are too many unwanted, unridable, even aggressive horses that need to be taken out of the population.
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Stop letting the AQHA breed crap horses.
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